This interview is an excerpt from a conversation between sisters. We talked about the everything: self acceptance, sexuality, grief journeys, family histories, recipes for healing, you name it. I am thinking about cleaning up the audio so that it has its place in the world - 45 minutes+ because this content deserves to occupy space. For the sake of the start of this project, I am going to reshape our conversation into a more condensed Q&A format. JA = Jenné Afiya and JB = me Jasmine Brown (visual_lit).

I chose to begin this series with Jenné because there is something intensely genuine about her walk in this lifetime. Jenné’s mother transitioned a few years ago, and I was curious about how she uses tarot as an integral part of her grief journey.

Yes, Black people use tarot.

Tarot is taboo in “our” community, but I really cannot understand why. I would be remiss if I didn’t mention that the subject in the past for me was taboo as well. However, the more I come to know myself by following universal signs and symbols, Black history and shared African ancestry the more I become open to the possibility that this subject isn’t taboo, it’s more closely aligned with social customs pre colonial history.

I am seeking to understand this complex topic without judgement, without stigma, to genuinely understand how it has been used to shape transformation, and healing. I love Jenné because she allowed me a glimpse into her life. This interview shines light on a lot of miscommunications and misconceptions. Jenné was the perfect start to this series of conversations around healing for women of color. Jenné Afiya is an artist, empath, fashionista, model (in all of our books), and a healer.

Thank you love for sharing your story, for allowing me to capture your image, for helping me to start a conversation I believe will extend into the rest of my life, and for being so patient with the amount of time it’s taken for me to publish.

Let’s get into it.

TAROT

JB: Let’s talk about demystifying tarot, or it it meant to be mysterious?

JA: Yes tarot is meant to be mysterious. It has been a way to carry sacred messages, to hide messages in coded images, that only the person [reading] can decipher. For me it has been a really important tool in my grief journey.

FAMILY & PERSONAL SPIRITUAL HISTORY

I am always interested in how our family histories shape who we are and what we are interested in, as I personally come from an atheist mother, a muslim father, a grandmother who raised me in the Baptist church, and sent me to private Catholic school. I was interested in how Jenné’s spirit had become in-tuned with tarot and her religious surroundings.

JA: My auntie is a Yoruba Priestess of Oshun, who began her journey in Santeria and then transitioned to Ifa. My dad is super spiritual he has been in the Nation [of Islam], he also practiced Agnihotra for a while. I was exposed to a lot of Diasporic traditions. I became familiar with tarot in the 5th grade when me and my two friends, Ady and Claire (who were white) tried to start a coven. Addie brought a book called, “The Everything Wicca and Witchcraft Book: Rituals, spells, and sacred objects for everyday magick”. Eventually we had to disband because we got found out. They thought we were going to put hexes on certain people, it was definitely in progress.

JB: [shocked laughter]

JA: I became familiar with tarot through a more Eurocentric idea of paganism and non-Christian beliefs. I remember being really interested in it and people being like, ‘no that’s the devil.’ I interacted with it periodically, and when I turned-twenty two or twenty-three I ordered my first deck off Amazon. The book that I had was very light, dark, scary. After that I got more into reading, reading for myself after my mom passed away... I think that’s because, I became more comfortable with my magic. More comfortable with receiving signs and messages from spirit, not viewing it as scary, viewing it as an essential part of life.

“I became more comfortable with my magic. More comfortable with receiving signs and messages from spirit, not viewing it as scary, viewing it as an essential part of life.
”

THE DEVIL’s WORK

JB: Most people associate tarot with the work of the devil, correct?

JA: Especially within the Black community, because I can only speak about being Black. The idea of devil worship is so interesting to me because so much of our spiritual practice even within the [air quotes] Christian church derives from the spiritual practices we had in Africa. You don’t see nobody catching the Holy Ghost in no white church. The way the ushers wear white, that is the color you ‘divine in’ in the Yoruba tradition in Santeria. The idea of devil worship amplifies the level of self hate we have regarding our origins.

RECLAMATION of HISTORY

JA: Tarot is meant to be mysterious material, but it’s also something that Black women in particular need and are reclaiming. Look to the deck in particular, the most common Smith-and- Waite was illustrated by a biracial woman; half white, half black, Pamela Colman Smith. The deck is still referred to as the Smith Rider Waite deck. A woman of color illustrated the deck that we all use. A lot of Black people don’t like using the deck because it has white bodies on it, which I understand. But I think it’s powerful that it is the most common deck anyone uses in western Tarot.

MOMMY & THE GRIEF

JB: I want you to talk about your mommy, and how tarot reconnected or continued the connection.

JA: Tarot continued the connection, she shows up a lot. She is with me all the time, when I am with other people they say, ‘ooh I feel something.’ I feel that all the time, I forget that she comes across super strong. My mom was definitely my true soulmate. Absolutely.

I wish I could take back all the times I said as a grouchy teenager, ‘you don't understand me!’ But she did, there were things that weren’t her experience but she understood me.

I feel like tarot is a way for us to communicate, a way for us to feel guided because you can feel really lost when you lose someone. Especially a parent when you are young, it’s hard. So tarot helped me to feel more grounded, and centered. I felt really lonely when she passed. There were things I did in the aftermath to not feel lonely [now] I’m like ‘ooh you should have sat in that a little more.’

JB: Sat in the loneliness?

JA: In the loneliness or in that free time. I had to quit all of my jobs except one, to take care of her. A lot of people create busy work for themselves when grieving. I’ve never been that kind of busybody in my life, just constantly moving, let’s do this, go here, go there. Even if it was just to Target. I was drinking margaritas and going to buy baby clothes for my nephew. I didn’t like being present with myself. I was so sad, that type of sadness you just can’t even process in your body, your mind can’t even, you’re just like fuck.

“There were things that weren’t her experience but she understood me. ”

PULLING for SELF

JB: What is the feeling like when you go to the deck?

JA: Coming to the deck for other people excites me always, now coming to the deck for myself it’s exciting but its always like bitch you already know whats up...sooooo. It’s so beautiful how you can call in these energies and they communicate with you through images. I have several decks. I used to read for myself all the time. I don’t read for myself as much now. When I haven’t been reading for myself, the cards will just pop out or they’ll fall over. I have a radiator in my house that three quarters of an oracle deck is still behind, so I’m like ok so it really wanted me to read like these 8 cards and really sit with these cards. Then the other day, because I put my cards up there to charge and get sun or whatever.* This other deck, a whole spread just fell to the ground. I really do feel like its telling me get what you can get out of your current experience and move on. Because there is something that’s waiting to come through that you need to do because it’s going to change your life. That will happen and I’m like oh damn I haven’t pulled for myself in a while.

JB: I want you to talk about more about how as Black women we often don’t pull for ourselves.

JA: I think black women don’t pull for themselves even if the shit is not related to Tarot. We will deal with everyone but ourselves. I was taught to do so; I think my mother openly acknowledged I don’t want you to be this way. I done openly read the Iyanla Vanzant and I know that this ain’t right but she couldn’t stop. Because there just was this fear that if she stopped what she was doing everyone’s life would fall apart. That is not something that an individual or even individuals for that matter should be saddled with. But black women often are, and normalize that and find comfort in it, they think that this is what they are supposed to be doing , and then it’s like everyone else is good, everyone else is fed, everyone else is clothed, but how do you feel about you?

Black women in particular were never taught to prioritize their dreams and wants. They were never taught to dream. I also just think that being a healer and learning to be, I want to learn to be healer in a way that isn’t self sacrificing. I know my mother was a healer, many black women are. But I think our healing traditions can have elements of self sacrifice. Not taking care of ourselves or not feeling like you need to be compensated. You just healing for free. You’re not healing for free. I think that’s a larger conversation in our culture about how women’s roles are undervalued. Not considered important when they are just (saying) keep the shit going. So I am trying to learn how to be a healer who also prioritizes self first. But it is so much easier to prioritize someone else.

ASCENSION

JAM: I do think the ascension was made possible by her being on the other side. I really do. It came up through one of my therapy sessions, sometimes there can be a lot of guilt about who you become after someone passes. Sometimes its as basic as the life insurance policy helped you pay off your credit card debt and you feeling wavy, Sallie Mae not calling you no more. Or it could be that you realize some real major shit about yourself and that sparked a little something and that went and it changed everything. So I think that I have and had some guilt about it, but I do think that I am where I am now because of her and feel comfortable in my magical self and spiritual self, I really do.

JB: That’s beautiful Jenné.

ADVICE & RECIPE FOR HEALING

JA: Know that there are mixed feelings about online witchery and spiritualism. But I do feel like its a awesome gateway for people. Be careful of who you are taking in, listen to your intuition, some messages aren’t for you - so listen to that. Take it slow, don’t pressure yourself, in certain spiritual communities you can feel really pressured to get certain [inaudible] or be at certain levels and it’s not a race. Especially if we believe that we are incarnated more than once its certainly not a race - you got lots of time. Speak to elders if you have them, I feel blessed to have my aunty. If there are any elders in your community or peers they don’t necessarily have to be much older but more experienced in that way. Seek them out. Sit still, really take that time to be alone.

You’ll figure out what is right for you and sometimes that will change. Also know that certain people can bring certain things out of you. You can have powers all day, many of us have powers, most of us have a power whether that is the gift of being able to be clairvoyant, hearing spirits, most people do, they ignore that or they use them to manipulate people that’s just big facts. Use your power wisely.

ELIXER

JB: So I told you how I want to do little recipe cards right? Have you been thinking about a recipe?

JAM: Ok so I feel like its:

Equal parts

+ Florida Water

+ Rose Petals

+ Powder Bleach

+ Kombucha

+ Amethyst

+ White Candle

JB: Whats this recipe for?

JAM: I feel like thats the Elixir de Jenné right there.

Place one amethyst into a bottle of GT’s Ginger Kombucha don’t shake.
Light one white candle
Drink the Kombucha
Pray to the candle
Then proceed to go into your bathroom and mix up some primsma lights blue powder bleach with creme volume 40 developer, apply to scalp
Let sit for 20 - 30 minutes *Rinse
Consume rest of elixir
Pray to the candle one more
Crush rose pedals on your palm
Smell them
Go to Sleep

* If rose pedals are not available an essential oils roll on will suffice

Jenné Afiya photographed at the Baltimore Conservatory

Jenné Afiya

@left_thigh | lor magik muva 🌟🔮

Thank you for reading this far. Love ya’ll and learning to love me.

This post is dedicated to Jenné’s mother: mama Cecelia White. We love you and your legacy.